Diabetes in Pets

Your user page

Hi Kathy. You sent me a message about yourself, and I put a copy on your user page so that others would know about you. You can of course edit it to make it say whatever you want. Venita 13:08, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC)


Do have information on these--just need enough time to get them on wiki. If you can bear with me, we WILL "get there"! KathyWe hope 16:28, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks for all the help! Let me know if you need Levemir info, I actually use the stuff every day. --Steve and Jock 17:44, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Dental procedure

Kathy. Thanks SO MUCH for all your work on the wiki. I wrote a piece on dental procedure http://petdiabetes.wikicities.com/wiki/Dental_procedure because it's a big deal on the FDMB. Get a "how do I do this" question almost every other day. I did not make it cat-specific except in the section about pre-procedure insulin. Can you take a look at that when you get a moment and see whether you can broaden it for dogs? Thanks! Venita 02:00, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments in my talk page on the dental piece. Please add anything you think is applicable to droolers (our "kind" FDMB term for dogs). Haven't seen anything on FDMB about heartworm meds at all, and no discussion of flea meds leading to higher BGs. But my cats are indoors, so I don't worry about that. I'll think about asking a question on the Boards (real busy right now). Maybe you want to add articles about cataract surgery, heartworm meds, and flea meds. There's a category on other conditions and treatments, although it sounds like with dogs cataracts are a diabetic condition, not an "other" condition, so it deserves linkage in the "conditions" category. Steve also just opened an "obstacles to regulation" page that the heartworm info might fit on nicely.
BTW, what is IDDM, which you used in responding to me? Venita 16:00, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Finally remembered to ask on FDMB about the effect of flea preventatives on a feline's BGs. Let you know what I find out. Did your medical source on canine dentals have any thought on pre-procedure insulin for dogs. That section, talking only about cats, really sticks out like a sore thumb. Thanks. Venita 09:29, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
No one on FDMB indicated a connection between flea preventatives and higher BGs. Thread here. Also, Dr. Lisa, our vet member, asked "Which products is she speaking about? I find it very hard to believe that topical products such as Advantage and Frontline would have one bit of influence on bgs." I told Dr. Lisa I would try to find out from you. Venita 12:52, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Dog articles needed

Hi Kathy, and thanks for your great work!

I have noticed that these articles on dogs are needed -- do any inspire you?

What do you think?

--Steve and Jock 21:35, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Wiki Notice on CDMB

Good morning Kathy. An idea, if you haven't already done this on the CDMB. Today I posted an update message about the wiki on the FDMB. It's here. You are not registered on the FDMB, so you can't write posts but you can read them. I am assuming it's the same rule on the CDMB so I didn't try to post something similar there. Perhaps you could. (And they know you, not me.) Venita 13:04, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Insulin expert!

Kathy, you seem to be very up on insulins, way more than I am. I've just expanded Lantus and Levemir, (and you contributed to Lantus), but they're both ready for any comments if you have any.

Best, Steve and Jock 17:13, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)

For ease of linking, please try to make one article for each insulin type within reason. Humulin U gets one, Novolin U gets another, etc. Then we can make group pages like NPH and Lente. -steve

Redirect syntax

Thanks for the excellent work on insulins, Kathy!

To redirect, use #REDIRECT [[Article]]

You need two square brackets on each side.

Thanks! Steve

Ok Kathy -- let's chat about it on the live chat: click here and I'll help you set up categories and redirects for all the other insulin categories.

--Steve and Jock 17:39, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Just make up any name but don't put spaces or special characters in it! Try "Kathy". :)

And categories

Here's what you needed: This is all copied from Wikipedia so the links are unresolved here, but it's what you need. I've added one more tip at the end!

--Steve and Jock 18:23, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)

How to create categories

Creating a category is as simple as adding a soft link to the appropriate article in the Category: namespace; for instance, to add Felis silvestris catus to the "fluffy creatures" category, you would edit the article and enter [[Category:Fluffy creatures]] at the bottom, but before interlanguage links. Although the link will not appear in the article text, a page called Category:Fluffy creatures will automatically list alphabetically all articles that contain the [[Category:Fluffy creatures]] link. The appeal of categories is that unlike lists, they update themselves automatically, and that one can use them to quickly find related articles. However, categories are not a substitute for lists, and you will find that many articles belong to both lists and categories. You may see some inconsistencies when first creating the category: it may alternate between appearing empty and appearing with your first additions. It will probably correct itself in a few minutes.

Note that, although "uncreated" categories will correctly list articles that have been assigned to them, the category page itself does not exist until it is manually created. The easiest way to create the category page is to follow the edit link from an article and add a parent category and a category description as explained below.

Creating subcategories

Create subcategory pages by putting the name of the parent category on a category page that you would like to be the subcategory. Child categories (subcategories) are created by putting [[category:parent_category_name]] on the lower-level category pages. For example, on a (sub)category page called category:Roses you put [[category:Flowers]], Roses becomes a subcategory of Flowers.

When adding an article to a category, or creating categories, one should be careful to use the correct categories and subcategories. Horizontal categorization, directly below, refers to placing an article in the correct category while vertical categorization refers to placing an article in the correct subcategory.

When assigning an article into categories, try to be thorough in a "horizontal" sense. The topic may be associated with a geographic area, a historical period, an academic subfield, a certain type of thing (like a food or an ornament), and/or a special interest topic (like Roman Empire or LBGT). You might need to poke around the category hierarchy a bit to find the right place. Try searching for articles similar to the article you are categorizing to get ideas or to find the most appropriate place. (For instance, '1990' is more correctly in 'Category:Years' rather than 'Category:Places'.)

In the "vertical" dimension, you should probably be more frugal. A good general rule is that articles should be placed in the most specific categories they reasonably fit in. For example, Queen Elizabeth should not be listed directly under People, but Queens of England might be a good place for her. We know that all Queens of England qualify as Famous Britons and as Royalty, and all of those folks qualify as People. But sometimes there's a good reason to assign an article to two categories, one of which is a direct or indirect subcategory of another. For a well-argued case study, see John Lennon.

Whatever categories you add, make sure they do not implicitly violate the neutral point of view policy. If the nature of something is in dispute (like whether or not it's fictional or scientific or whatever), you may want to avoid labelling it or mark the categorization as disputed. Most categorizations are pretty straightforward, though.

Making groups of subcategories

Categories can only list 200 entries at a time. When there are more than 200 entries, only the first 200 will be displayed. To make it easy to navigate, add a TOC (table of contents). TOCs are added by typing:

{{CategoryTOC}} - which adds a complete TOC (Top, 0 - 9, A-Z)
{{CatAZ}} - which adds a TOC without numbers. This is for categories with members that only start with letters.

When a given category gets crowded, also consider making several subcategories. Group similar articles together in a meaningful and useful way that will make it easy for readers to navigate later. Remember that several subcategorization schemes can coexist (for example, if Category:Software gets too big, you don't have to choose between subdividing it by function or subdividing it by platform, you can simultaneously subdivide it in both ways).

A set of related categories often forms a hierarchy or a nexus. This can take several different forms, all of which are welcome and encouraged:

  • A taxonomic grouping. For example, Category:South Asian countries is part of a geographical hierarchy. Category:Academic disciplines catalogs divisions between fields of study.
  • A functional grouping. Examples: Category:Ancient Rome, Category:World War II, and Category:Commercial item transport and distribution. These bring together articles and subcategories from different fields or taxonomies (history, war, culture, people, companies, industries, technologies) that have an interesting common thread.
  • Hybrid forms. For example, Category:Art is both part of the taxonomy of Category:Academia and a cross-reference point for lots of things that have little in common except that they have something to do with art.
  • Offshoot forms. For example, Category:Film stubs contains subcategories of Category:Comedy film stubs for comedy films, and Category:Drama film stubs for drama films.

Category membership and creation

When writing the description for a category, give it a parent category. In fact, you should try to give it at least two parent categories. For example, Category:British writers should be in both Category:Writers by nationality and Category:British people. A few categories do only merely subdivide their parent category, but unless the parent category has many potential articles under it, or many potential subdivisions, if you can't think of a second parent category, it might be a better idea to fold your smaller category into the parent.

Tip from steve: To make a link to a category, use a colon ':' before the word "Category", so: [[:Category:Insulins]] is a link to the category, while [[Category:Insulins]] makes the current page a member of that category.
Note also:
  • A category may have the same name as a separate article (eg. Lente and Category:Lente)
  • You can move a page with the "move" tab above the page (if you see it), and the page will change name. The old name will automatically become a redirect for the new page.
  • Moving categories will break all links pointing to the category, so try not to.
--Steve and Jock 18:23, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)

What I tried to say yesterday by IRC

My quicker version I tried to include in our IRC chat:

1. Add an article to a category by adding [[Category:articlename]] at the end of the article. 2. The category won't exist officially until you go to that page (click on a red category link) and add a bit of text. 3. The article of the same name is a different beast, but should generally also be in the category. Just include the category [[Category:articlename]] at the bottom of it too. --Steve and Jock 10:46, 18 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Mixed insulins redirect

Hi Kathy -- Venita just wrote:

Maybe it's a work in progress, but when I went to Humulin 50/50 (and some others), I was redirected to a topic Mixed insulins, that was set up to redirect to a category, but it didn't automatically go there. Just a glitch I thought I would let you know about. Venita 21:10, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Yep, insulin categories are under construction again, thanks to lots of new info coming from Kathy. I'm letting her handle it for now, she has a lot to add and I don't want to mess it up. Later I may help wikify it a bit. Steve and Jock
Kathy -- I'm systematizing your extra insulins better than before. I'm hoping you'll see what I'm doing and continue the process. Each company gets its own page (similar to your CP Pharma page, with contact and web links, company info), plus its own category (which various insulins point to using categories). The two are interlinked of course. Each insulin gets its own page even if it's mostly just a one-liner with links to the company and similar insulins, but has a complete category listing. This way the category lists for each company and insulin type can be complete.
Of course I may have made some factual errors in insulin types while setting this up, please feel free to correct while continuing to clean up the categories. Thanks! Steve and Jock 00:54, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

How to move an article to a different category

Kathy, you can and should fix these small errors (as you mention in Talk:fast-acting ) yourself -- just click on the article name (Actrapid or Insuman) and find the [[Category:fast-acting]] at the bottom -- and delete it! Or better yet, change it to "short-acting".
Categories are decided in the article itself, not the category page.
--Steve and Jock 17:49, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
--Great work on replacing those last redirects with little articles and equivalences and categories! Please keep it up! --Steve and Jock 19:34, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Bolus and Basal Insulins

Some of the articles use those terms, but no where does the wiki define and describe them. I only have a vague notion of what they mean. I thought maybe you could put that on your to do list, maybe for the insulin article? Also, the insulin article refers to Iletin I (beef-pork) but there is no article on that insulin. Should there be? Venita 08:48, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Hi Kathy. You responded to me on my talk page, and I responded back to you there. Venita 13:38, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
And yet again. Venita 15:56, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)

The next step


Now that we've entered all the information and some links between the insulins across the pond, and the manufacturers and product lines, I was thinking of adding a template box on the right-hand side for common information for each insulin. It looks very professional when done correctly, see language template or even character template as examples.

I was thinking a template box for insulins (an insulin template) might include:

  • Action:
  • Suspension:
  • Manufacturer:
  • Source/Production:
  • Generic name:
  • Line:
  • Other names:
  • Similar products:
  • In production:
  • Handling:
    • Clear/cloudy
    • Shelf life
    • Life in refrigerator
    • Life in pen
    • Notes

etc... These could be fit into a nice 2-d table like the language template above, with a color background. Then a second smaller template perhaps for manufacturers, including

  • Country of origin
  • Local contacts, websites in
    • US
    • UK
    • Canada
    • Australia

Does this interest you? Steve and Jock 16:07, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Let me know if you think the "Insulin" templates should be color-coded for action profile.

Examples: http://harrypotter.wikicities.com/wiki/Template_talk:Character http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Language#Usage

Of course we don't need to do this.

--Steve and Jock 14:42, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)

What was the link problem you saw?

I couldn't reproduce your problem with the links on contraindicated medications. Any hints what was happening?


Copyright vio

Hi Kathy --

Thanks for adding the extra link today to those complications pages. I notice you've added text which is in many cases a direct copy/paste of the paragraph on the link. In most cases that's a no-no. Wikicities is very strict about copyrighted text.

Since it's just a paragraph at a time, you can, if the info is non-essential, leave out the paragraph and assume people will find it when they click the link. If the info is essential, you can write your own paragraph instead.

Since a wiki is most useful when every fact has a source, it's best just to mention the important facts, in our own words, with a link to their source.

I don't get it!

Kathy, please tell me what the "Rx Status" category will do. I don't understand how it will tell me whether a particular insulin is likely to be Rx or not in my country.

Rx on Insulin

We hope 18:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

US law says analogs and veterinary insulins need RX, Canadian law says no insulins need Rx. UK law says all insulins need Rx and most or all of EU says all insulins need Rx.


For your logged in/out thing

Try the Live chat & support link (use a username with no spaces). They'are very helpful these days, since Sannse, JasonR and Mindspillage are all now employees.... --steve

I'll be out or mostly out for 2 weeks

Can't spend much time online due to nasty eye infection. Hurts.


Cleanups on "Substitutes" pages, PZI cases

Hi Kathy -- just wanted to clarify what I've done so you don't have to trace it all back.

First, I've cleaned up the PZI case studies so that they all come into a subcategory based on type of PZI. The category "PZI cases" is now (nearly) empty but contains subcategories for all the PZI's.

Second, I've taken your excellent notes on insulin compatibility and similarity and redistributed them. The ones on Humulin L vs. Iletin went into a new Substitutes for Iletin II NPH page, which you may want to add to. I reformatted both of our notes on the Substitutes for Humulin U and L page and hope it's clear and readable now.

One answer I'd like to see in your comparisons is differences in action. For instance, you mention the different suspensions but not how that might affect onset and duration.

Great working with you as always! --Steve and Jock 15:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


Hey, I answers at w:Talk:Spam_Blacklist#Possible_Bots. Szoferka 03:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The revamp to "reference" style looks wonderful!

Sabina looked at it and asked why the "External Links" section was called that if it's really "Further reading". I didn't have any good answer, so I'm changing it... :)

Amazing work!

This wiki just got 75% more credible and 30% more readable, thanks to your tireless work!

I hope moving has been easy! Where are you moving to?

A challenge if you choose to accept it

Hi Kathy --

I don't know if you have time to think about this, but we need an insulin timing chart for dogs and another for cats, possibly on its own page, or on the "Insulin" page.

The format might be similar to that great one you found for european insulins (it's gone now, here's the GOogle cache: an ex-link ) Do you still have a saved copy of that one?

One for cats, one for dogs would be great. All the info is already (mostly) available under the individual insulin pages. Part of the challenge, for making it readable, would be to reduce the number of insulins covered. Sure, we could have all 118 on the page, but then it's too big to use. A single NPH would do, for example.

A reduced set would help. Cat lovers would be satisfied with just:

  • R
  • Humulin N
  • Iletin II
  • Caninsulin/Vetsulin
  • PZI Vet
  • Summit PZI
  • Humulin L
  • Humulin U
  • Lantus
  • Levemir

Dogs might have a larger group, but probably not much larger.

On second thought, the format in that link is too hard to adjust later. Better to use a simple chart.

Something like (edit this page to see the source, it's simple):

Insulin in dogs
Generic Name Onset(hours) Peak(hours) Duration(hours) Brands
NPH 0.5-3 2-10 5-24 Humulin N, Novolin N, Insulatard

What do you think -- should we give it a try together? Brevity would count as a virtue, since those who want to see them all have the wiki to bounce around.

I'm also tempted to go with average (or median) figures instead of ranges. No sense trying to cover every possibility, (2-10 hours doesn't say much!) but important to warn of unpredictability: i.e.

Insulin in dogs
Generic Name Onset(hours) Peak(hours) Duration(hours) Interpatient variation Intrapatient variation Brands
NPH 1 8 14 high moderate Humulin N, Novolin N, Insulatard
Ultralente 3 10 24 high high Humulin U, Novolin U, Ultratard

Now of course those variations are matters of opinion, but they could either be left that way (ranges are matters of opinion too!), or numbers used (+/- 3 hours), or researched and with real numbers used, such as this example:

<img src="http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/file.php?8,file=5312">

What do you think? People are starting to ask for these...

--Steve and Jock 18:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


Hi Kathy! The page http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Introduction is very highly cat-biased.

Can you add any links to give people a nice, big-print overview of canine diabetes that you agree with?

--Steve and Jock 16:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)16:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Diet-controlled vs. Remission cases?

What's the difference between a diet-controlled cat and a cat in Remission? --Steve and Jock 22:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

You say that a diet-controlled cat has never used insulin -- makes sense but will confuse FDMB people who like to use "diet-controlled" to refer to remission cases too. Sorry no good suggestions yet. -steve

As you suggest, "Insulin-naive" is good. --steve
If a feline has been controlled with diet alone, never needed orals or insulin, then insulin-naive is a fine (currently unused) term in the FD world. If the cat is in remission we say diet-controlled or "in remission", depending who you ask. -steve
Not sure who you're referring to, but we already have a "Remission cases" category. If you add a "diet-controlled" category for felines, it's not clear how they differ still. --steve

Geek notes on GE insulin generic names

Thanks to your excellent chart, I made these notes on the FDMB. Thought this might amuse you:



Those metabolism cartoons

Kathy, are all those cartoons your own?

I looked on their upload pages and can't find an author or license mentioned.

Just curious. If you did them yourself, it would be good to mention that you're the author and you release them under GFDL.


Format tips

Hi Kathy!

Your new table format (or converter?) isn't working very well -- it makes tables into stacks of tables, with a new table for each row. This has some poor effects on formatting-- the columns don't line up, and the rows are always separated by a double border.

Also, the tables are often colliding with or overlapping with the text or images. This may be because of overzealous wrapping. The formatter considers the tables to be text and tries to wrap them around the images, with disastrous results.

My tips to fix this (which I've done now on Syringe) are:

  • Always check your wrapping and image formatting by moving the window corner around to simulate lots of different viewing sizes. Try tall, thin, wide, small, large. As you move around, watch the text re-wrap and the images collide.
  • When the above shows problems, they can usually be fixed by adding <br clear=left> before a left-aligned image, or when things look very confused, <br clear=both> before a section header.
  • If that isn't enough, or leaves large gaps: Instead of alternating images left and right, if you have a lot of images in one small section, keep them always on the right and try to make them, where convenient, the same width. (Don't change what's not broken, but check lots of window shapes to be sure it's not broken)
  • Try the new format for the tables I demonstrated (with before and after) on the discussion page for Talk:Syringe. It's way easier and looks better, both in the code and on the page.

Like the new cats & dogs headers!

Much nicer, thanks!

Want a big "&" to use for the combined lists? --Steve

Cleanup time

Hi Kathy --

In addition to your proposed cleanup of the Obstacles page, I propose a general cleanup of the articles to go with Pet Diabetes Month.

We'll be getting some publicity that month and I'd like the pages to look nice for guests. My first thoughts are to keep the intro part of each article clean (max 1 image, 1 short paragraph, 2 at most), keep the images and text flow nice looking and working on most browser sizes, and add section headers to the pages that are one big monolith of text.

But that's just me -- some wikia folks (Bill and Gil) will be along shortly at my request with more advice to help us clean things up for the guests. We have until at least Nov 2, probably a few days extra.

Let's be in close touch by email on this and I'll be putting more work in. --steve

Diluting & Combining Insulin

Kathy -- the redirect you did worked fine for me, but I was thinking that the two articles are each long enough now to be separated anyway. Diluting and combining aren't so tightly interlinked that they can't be separated, right? What if we just cut them apart and redirected "Diluting and combining" to "Diluting" (the longer one) with a cross-link at the top of each?

I would like to give it a try myself, since you agree. I'll use separate pages altogther, and update the incoming links. --steve
Done! Check it out: diluting_insulin, combining insulin

Cats and Dogs separations

Kathy I'm looking at some of the pages you're reformatting and I want to propose another change. The "Cats" and "Dogs" images are bigger and visually more arresting than the normal headers, so they break up the page more than the headers do. This makes it very hard to see the headers -- all one sees when scanning down is the words "Cats" and "Dogs" over and over.

On the other hand, they're cute, so just reducing them to be smaller than the headers, while simple, would perhaps not please you.

My compromise solution is to have each of the "Cats" and "Dogs" images appear no more than once on each page, by reversing the order of the grouping thusly -- instead of:

  • Videos
Cats & Dogs
  • Pictures
Cats & Dogs
  • Further Reading
Cats & Dogs

how about

  • Cats
Further Reading
  • Dogs
Further Reading
  • Cats & Dogs
Further Reading

Does this make sense? The articles become much easier to scan. :Challenge: how to make this work in the table of contents too? --steve

POM proposal for December

Normally I wouldn't do two doggies in a row, but I couldn't resist this one:



We hope 14:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Main Page

Hi Kathy, welcome back --

No problem with your addition of lots of cats and dogs, but the commendations from vets are more important above the fold. I've moved the cats and dogs below the fold (bottom part of page) to keep the credibility high.

Best regards, Steve --Steve and Jock 02:11, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Main Page Collumns

Hello, We are going to be setting up a left and right column on the main page. This will prevent the advertisements from messing with the page. Regards Kmanwing (talk) 20:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

No Longer Here

Since September 7, 2009, I am at the Canine Diabetes Wiki.



We hope 21:58, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

At the request of Natalie K., I have deleted Chris' case and his photo. Have temporarily returned here only to honor this request. We hope 05:51, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

New Look Coming to Lifestyle

Howdy! Quick reminder, in case you missed the site notice last week. The Lifestyle category, which includes the wiki you are an admin for, is among the first to test out our new look (read more about the new look)!

You've been added to the beta group where you can access the Theme Designer to prepare your wiki for the change over. Starting tomorrow (October 6,2010) all anonymous viewers of your wiki will see it with the new look. We've created a Transition Guide with tips and best practices in the Community blog or my announcement for Lifestyle admins has even more tips. Please let me know if you have any questions.

JeskaD 19:07, October 5, 2010 (UTC)